NEW YORK (AP) 鈥� Martin Scorsese was knee-deep in preparation for 鈥淜illers of the Flower Moon鈥� when Mara Hennessey reached out to invite him to see David Johansen. The former frontman for the trailblazing 1970s proto-punk band 鈥� and Hennessey's husband 鈥� was performing a new show at the Caf茅 Carlyle.
Scorsese, a longtime fan of Johansen (he had once played the Dolls to rile up his actors for a fight scene), went eagerly with a handful of others, including his frequent documentary collaborator David Tedeschi. There, they saw Johansen perform a lounge act of grit and grace.
Here was a downtown fixture relocated to one of uptown鈥檚 swankiest rooms. As his pompadoured alter ego, Buster Poindexter, Johansen was performing stripped-down versions of his own songs and Dolls hits, with plenty of reflective, comic interludes. Scorsese, smitten by Johansen鈥檚 performance, immediately resolved to shoot it 鈥� the still ringing echo of a vanished New York.
鈥淚t was just a natural feel: We have to do this,鈥� Scorsese explained in an interview. 鈥淲e have to capture it before it goes.鈥�
which debuts Friday on Showtime, is the result, mixing footage Scorsese and co-director David Tedeschi shot over two nights at the Carlyle in January 2020 with flashbacks through Johansen鈥檚 wildly varied career and intimate interviews taped during the pandemic by Johansen and Hennessey鈥檚 daughter, Leah.
Like Scorsese鈥檚 recent Netflix series 鈥淧retend It鈥檚 a City鈥� with Fran Lebowitz, it's also a portrait of a still clarion, still vibrant New York voice in a city that now hardly resembles the one they were all forged in.
鈥淭he environment that he came out of in the 鈥�70s, in a way, I鈥檓 still there,鈥� says Scorsese, whose third feature film, 鈥淢ean Streets,鈥� debuted the same year as the Dolls鈥� first album. 鈥淚t has to do with New York because we live in New York. I鈥檓 not doing L.A. I鈥檓 not doing Chicago. I live in New York. And this is a part of where I came from. It turns out that it鈥檚 changed, it鈥檚 finished, it鈥檚 gone, it鈥檚 going somewhere else.鈥�
Time is much on the mind of Scorsese, 80, who in a month his sprawling adaptation of David Grann鈥檚 bestseller about a series of murders of members of the Osage tribe in 1920s Oklahoma. The scope of the Apple release 鈥� with a budget of $200 million and a reported runtime of nearly four hours 鈥� makes it one of Scorsese鈥檚 biggest undertakings.
鈥淚t鈥檚 not four hours,鈥� he says. 鈥淚t鈥檚 lengthy. It鈥檚 an epic.鈥�
Adding in 鈥淭he Irishman,鈥� Scorsese鈥檚 ambitions seem to be only growing with age. Bigger productions, he says, are what he's aiming toward now 鈥� even if he鈥檚 less accustomed to directing the movement of mass groups of people the way Steven Spielberg or Ridley Scott can.
鈥淭hey just snap their fingers and it happens. But I can鈥檛. Maybe I could,鈥� says Scorsese. 鈥淪omething else happens. If the character finds himself in a story that takes a longer period of time to tell, then I feel comfortable with that. And I think there鈥檚 an audience for that. Or I should say I think there鈥檚 still an audience for that.鈥�
Other big projects may loom, Scorsese says.
鈥淚f I get there,鈥� he says. 鈥淵ou got to get there.鈥�
All of which makes 鈥淧ersonality Crisis,鈥� sandwiched between two monumental masterworks, a stirringly intimate contrast.
鈥淚 was surprised by how much I liked it,鈥� says Johansen. 鈥淚 hardly cringed.鈥�
The Staten Island-born Johansen, now 73, was a pivotal figure of 鈥�70s East Village New York and the New York Dolls presaged the punk movement. Since then, he's reinvented himself as the lounge-singing Buster Poindexter, who had the 1980s hit (a song that Johansen now more or less disowns). He鈥檚 acted, too. Many will remember Johansen as the taxi-driving ghost of Christmas past in 鈥淪crooged.鈥�
Part of the joy of 鈥淧ersonality Crisis鈥� is that it takes Johansen 鈥� so often associated with particular eras of rock 鈥� out of those contexts. Here, he鈥檚 simply a gravel-voiced lounge lizard supreme 鈥� a rock 鈥榥鈥� roll survivor with the anecdotes to go with it.
鈥淚t鈥檚 not a rock doc,鈥� says Hennessey. 鈥淭o me, it鈥檚 a portrait of an artist.鈥�
Almost since the beginning, Scorsese has toggled between narrative features and documentaries, though he and Tedeschi don鈥檛 love the term 鈥渄ocumentary.鈥� (鈥淲e鈥檇 rather have fun,鈥� says Tedeschi.) Each are simply films, Scorsese says, with different rhythms, choreographies and grammar. And they inform each other, a back-and-forth alchemy that began with 1974鈥檚 鈥淚talian American,鈥� a dialogue with his parents released in between 鈥淢ean Streets鈥� and 鈥淎lice Doesn鈥檛 Live Here Anymore.鈥�
鈥淭hese films that David and I do free me to think differently about the narrative films I鈥檓 making. The narrative films I鈥檓 making are becoming more like novels. These are not quite,鈥� says Scorsese. 鈥淪ometimes you get locked in by what鈥檚 around you and the way things are supposed to be done. 鈥業talian American,鈥� I just hold the camera on my mother and my father speaking and it was interesting. It changed everything for me.鈥�
鈥淭he Last Waltz,鈥� Scorsese鈥檚 seminal film with The Band, he says shaped 鈥淩aging Bull.鈥� , Scorsese connects with 2016鈥檚 鈥淪ilence鈥� 鈥� both in their way about the performance of a spiritual act.
鈥淧ersonality Crisis鈥� likewise influenced 鈥淜illers of the Flower Moon.鈥� Several songs Scorsese heard while listening to Johansen鈥檚 wide-ranging satellite radio show 鈥淢ansion of Fun鈥� made it into the movie, including Mamie Smith鈥檚 鈥淐razy Blues.鈥� Charlie Musselwhite plays harmonica alongside Johansen in 鈥淧ersonality Crisis鈥�; he also, by coincidence, is an actor in 鈥淜illers of the Flower Moon.鈥�
鈥淭hey just seem to come together,鈥� says Scorsese of his nonfiction and fiction films.
The same could be said for Johansen and Scorsese. They've known each other for decades. Johansen remembers seeing 鈥淢ean Streets鈥� when it came out, not knowing anything about the director.
鈥淚t was so fundamentally good,鈥� he says, shaking his head. Johansen, though, initially wasn't thrilled about the idea of a documentary.
鈥淧eople always ask me, 鈥榃ould you be in this documentary? It鈥檚 about punk.鈥� I would just say nope,鈥� Johansen says. 鈥淏ecause when I see myself in that situation, I feel like, 鈥榃ho is this idiot and where did he come from?鈥欌��
But making a film with Scorsese 鈥� whose long line of rock 鈥榥鈥� roll chronicles includes 鈥淕eorge Harrison: Living in the Material World鈥� and the Rolling Stones concert film 鈥淪hine a Light鈥� 鈥� was an easier call.
鈥淚 like him for a lot of reasons but one of the reasons I like him is because he, like myself, finds music so inspiring,鈥� says Johansen.
Johansen and Hennessey first thought about turning the Carlyle concert into an off-Broadway show, but Scorsese said it should be filmed.
鈥淢arty said, 鈥楢sk my wife. I fall asleep in the theater,鈥欌�� recalls Johansen.
Scorsese and Tedeschi shot his performances unsure of what shape it would take. Over the pandemic, it morphed into a film, and perhaps the clearest and most unfiltered recording of Johansen yet. (A soundtrack is forthcoming.)
鈥淚 used to think about my voice like: 鈥榃hat鈥檚 it gonna sound like? What鈥檚 it going to be when I do this song?鈥� And I鈥檇 get myself into a knot about it," says Johansen. "At some point in my life, I decided: 鈥楯ust sing the f----ing song. With whatever you got.鈥� To me, I go on stage and whatever mood I鈥檓 in, I just claw my way out of it, essentially.鈥�
Scorsese, too, has been trying to persevere without compromise in a sometimes unhospitable environment for cinema. Along with his extensive efforts to preserve and restore old films with the and attempts to bring classic films to new audiences with , Scorsese has often publicly spoken against the predominance of blockbusters in today's moviegoing.
鈥淚 did a film ('The Irishman') with Netflix. That was a great experience. The same with Apple 鈥� even more so because we鈥檙e going theatrical,鈥� he says of the film to open in theaters Oct. 20. 鈥淭he experience watching at home is OK. It鈥檚 OK. But it鈥檚 not what it should be.鈥�
He worries that a generation will grow up with the idea that a theatrical movie is a blockbuster, and everything else is 鈥渁lternative cinema.鈥�
鈥淲ho said movies were going to be made like they were in the first 75, 80 years? Because they were made for theaters," says Scorsese. "That may not be the case anymore. It鈥檚 a new world.鈥�
But Scorsese is still holding out hope. He'd like to see streaming companies build theaters.
鈥淢aybe these new companies might say: Let鈥檚 invest in the future of the new generations for creativity,鈥� Scorsese says. 鈥淏ecause a young person actually going to see a film in the theater, that person, who knows, five or 10 years later could be a wonderful novelist, painter, musician, composer, filmmaker, whatever. You don鈥檛 know where that inspiration is going to land when you throw it out there. But it鈥檚 got to be out there.鈥�
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Jake Coyle, The Associated Press
