TORONTO (AP) 鈥� Sports typically culminate, after stirring locker-room speeches, in a dramatic bid for athletic glory. Taika Waititi's concerns the quest of a historically bad national soccer team, the 2011 American Samoa men's squad, in their struggle to qualify for the FIFA World Cup after an infamous 31-0 drubbing against Australia.
鈥淣ext Goal Wins," inspired by is a sports movie that delights in upending the conventions of sports movies. (Michael Fassbender plays the coach brought in to turn the team around.) For Waititi, it's a typically deconstructionist approach that leans more into the charisma of its Polynesian cast (among them Oscar Kightly and Kaimana, as the trans player Jaiyah Saelua) than rah-rah win-or-lose dramatics.
鈥淚 think all my films are feel-good films, but I feel that more and more that鈥檚 becoming less normal and more of a risky thing to do,鈥� Waititi says. 鈥淲hich makes no real sense because you go to the movies to escape.鈥�
The 48-year-old M膩ori filmmaker of and met a reporter the morning after 鈥淣ext Goal Wins鈥� premiered at the Toronto International Film Festival. He was speaking while the were ongoing, which, for him, was a welcome hiatus after a whirlwind stretch of work, with plenty of projects (including a 鈥淪tar Wars鈥� film in development) still in the wings.
Waititi, himself, doesn鈥檛 know much about soccer and professes to know even less after making 鈥淣ext Goal Wins,鈥� which opens in theaters Friday. He's also, as he said in the interview, less and less interested in Hollywood, a game he's already tempted to walk away from.
AP: Are you a fan of any sports movies?
WAITITI: I don鈥檛 know. I don鈥檛 really watch that many sports movies. I鈥檇 say I like them but I can鈥檛 really remember many of them.
AP: Not 鈥淎ny Given Sunday鈥�? You quote from it in the film.
WAITITI: I just remember that being so long. So long and so many zoom shots. No, I like that film. I think 鈥淐ool Runnings鈥� is probably the closest to this.
AP: Your last 鈥淭hor鈥� movie took apart masculinity and superhero convention, and 鈥淣ext Goal Wins鈥� seems just as disinterested in sports movie traditions.
WAITITI: Yeah. Well, my second film ("Boy") is a sort of deconstructed anti-feelgood family film. It鈥檚 just a comedy about child abuse. I guess 鈥淲hat We Do in the Shadows鈥� is the same. Just trying to fight against what the normal filmmaking would be or what the normal idea of what that film should be. I鈥檓 interested in soccer but I鈥檓 not passionate about it. I don鈥檛 care about it like I care about stories about people, stories about family.
AP: Your films return often to the idea of family. You've said your notion of family isn't defined by blood.
WAITITI: I have a big family but a couple friends are way closer to me than any of my family. For me, this idea of blood family being so important, it comes from when villages were tiny and people in Europe were obsessed with keeping the bloodline alive. I just don鈥檛 think it鈥檚 such an important thing anymore. Adoption is such a great thing because it鈥檚 not who you come from, it鈥檚 who raises you. You adopt a kid, they become a version of you because of the things you teach them and how you raise them.
AP: Was there anything about your upbringing that led you to feel that way?
WAITITI: Having kids of my own solidified this hunch that I had. Some of it comes from wondering why there鈥檚 still racism and how kids can still be raised to be homophobic. It鈥檚 clear it鈥檚 just families perpetuating the ideas that they were taught. You just hope that cycles changes enough and breaks enough as society grows. If you just raise your kids to not be anti-gay, chances are their kids won鈥檛 be, either. It鈥檚 really easy.
AP: Along with 鈥淩eservation Dogs,鈥� which you helped create, 鈥淣ext Goal Wins鈥� captures Indigenous people in a celebratory, less self-serious way than we often see in film.
WAITITI: For good reason, there needs to be respect. But I think Polynesian, Pasifika people, we鈥檙e very self-deprecating. We like to laugh at ourselves. If this was made by a Westerner or was a white-led film, it would be just too respectful and the kind of saccharine bulls-鈥�. That鈥檚 the reason Native Americans have been misrepresented for so long in film. It鈥檚 not because it鈥檚 not an authentic portrayal of what they look like. They鈥檙e always portrayed as stoic, mysterious, quiet, wise characters who speak in sage advice passed down by ancestors. It鈥檚 like, god, what a boring existence if that鈥檚 the way you live. And it鈥檚 not the way we live. This is why I really believe films about cultures need be made by people from that culture or who have at least lived amongst that culture.
AP: What was it like assembling a cast of largely Indigenous actors for a production shot in Hawaii?
WAITITI: To be able to swim while you鈥檙e shooting and go to the beach before work and after work when the sun is going down and you鈥檙e losing light, go home, play with the kids, have dinner. I understand now why Adam Sandler did all those films in Hawaii. A lot of people like to torture themselves in filmmaking. They want to go and live in the snow and eat carcasses and live the experience. I don鈥檛. I grew up super poor and I don鈥檛 want to do that again. I basically hate working and want to retire, but if I have to work, I鈥檒l make it as pleasant as I can.
AP: But you work all the time.
WAITITI: Yeah, but do I? People say I work all the time. Only I know the truth. Listen, your name can be a lot of headlines about work that apparently you鈥檙e doing. Doesn鈥檛 mean you鈥檙e doing it. Having some press release about me being attached to a project, that鈥檚 someone else doing the work. It鈥檚 not me doing the work.
AP: Is this you saying you鈥檙e not doing a 鈥淪tar Wars鈥� film?
WAITITI: I鈥檓 not saying anything about anything. I鈥檓 not having any of these conversations because I鈥檓 not allowed to. I can鈥檛 wait for the strike to be over but, selfishly, this has probably been the best thing for me, in terms of me getting to take a break. I needed to be forced to stop working for a bit.
AP: How have you been spending your time?
WAITITI: Now and then I鈥檒l think about ideas I might want to do. And then very quickly I get very tired just thinking about them and I fall asleep or find anything else in the world to do that鈥檚 not a job. This summer I was in Europe, enjoying the sun, back on beaches. It鈥檚 all I want to do for the rest of my life. Go to the beach. I grew up on beaches and then I worked for so long without getting a chance to go back to the beach until this film. This is probably what reminded me 鈥� just like Michael鈥檚 character learning there鈥檚 more to life than football 鈥� there鈥檚 more to life than film. There鈥檚 more to life than being in the entertainment industry. You think it鈥檚 going to be so cool 鈥� what a great life it鈥檚 going to be in show business. Hollywood is just sad people eating lukewarm food out of cardboard boxes in offices with windows looking on other offices.
AP: But you鈥檝e started to think about whether you need to keep working?
WAITITI: Oh, I know I don鈥檛. I鈥檓 already 鈥� my plan, basically, is to figure out how to quit. (Laughs) To figure out how can I comfortably stop doing anything. What I need to do is get a big piece of wood and some sand paper and just sand it. Keep sanding it everyday until I die. Out in my backyard looking out at the sea. 鈥淚鈥檓 going out to sand my bit of wood, darling!鈥�
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Jake Coyle, The Associated Press
